04-23-2012, 01:54 PM | #21 | |
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04-23-2012, 01:55 PM | #22 |
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ROFL I would draw the line there too. I've worn rainbow necklaces, but people still ask me if I'm at the pride parade to support my gay brother or something. I want to yell, "Not all queer women have mullets, you know!" but alas, I'm usually much more polite....
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04-23-2012, 01:56 PM | #23 | |
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04-23-2012, 01:59 PM | #24 |
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Firedance,
I am very sorry this happened to you and that butches have treated you in a way that is neither respectful nor admirable. I happen to believe that one should take great pride in the way he/she treats a femme. To me, femmes are the most amazing women because they choose to stand next to us, stand up for us, and stand with us. They do all that in the face of what can be some rather serious hostility in the world. And honestly, a butch should know how to avoid a line, get a good table, but most importantly -- treat you properly. At all times. I believe in having a standard that I maintain with all femmes I know. And thank you for saying you have our (collective) back. I have found that sometimes girls say that, but then their actions don't reflect that. It is nice to encounter a femme who backs it up. Best, Jake |
04-23-2012, 02:10 PM | #25 | |
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04-23-2012, 02:21 PM | #26 | |
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I wrote my friend, whom I respect, and enjoy hanging out with, and let her know I was about to post this, because I believe in transparency in friendships as well as governments. She promptly apologized, and we are good. She wasn't the first, and I doubt she will be the last. And I figured something out about myself. I was finally able to put into words why I felt betrayed. I chose to share my thoughts in the hope that those of us who participate in this dynamic could have exactly this dicussion. I Know I'm not the only Femme that expects this type of respect. And I suspect there are Femmes who would not have been bothered at all by those statements. Clarity, clarity is a good thing! |
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04-23-2012, 02:34 PM | #27 | |
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Grin... Smirk... I am feeling the Femme-Sista Love on this one!! |
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04-23-2012, 02:42 PM | #28 | |
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However, younger or newer Butches, who have not been around our dynamic, sometimes need some guidance in the what is and is not cool to say, and how to get tables, open doors and all the wonderful things you guys do for us!
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04-23-2012, 04:25 PM | #29 |
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from my point of view, i don't see this as a butch problem, ... but rather a lack of tact. to say things such as this is offensive. i've never done it. i've never thought about asking a woman to do it.
this feels like a butch trying to act like some heterosexual men do. i grew up, and i am still in a heterosexual world. i try to stay away from most things hetero, in regards to relationships. obviously i can't with all things. but something like this can be avoided if i don't pick up the tactless practices of some heterosexual men. when i think of a lesbian butch, i think of sensitive. sweet. caring. with touches of tomboy. good thread. thanks firedance. |
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04-23-2012, 04:33 PM | #30 | |
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There are hard assed very very masculine Butch Lesbians out there. Sometimes, these Butches need some guidance from friends and Femmes on how to act. lol Not trying to be argumentative
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04-23-2012, 04:36 PM | #31 | |
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04-23-2012, 04:42 PM | #32 |
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Reading this I realise I've been told a lot that I can 'flirt with men to get blah blah done' except no, I don't and never have flirted with men for anything.
I think it's the expectation that we have straight privilege and therefore will be comfortable to 'trick' people into thinking we're sexually available and therefore eligible for free favours from heterosexual men. Forgetting of course that we don't want it. Just like we don't want attention from men.
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04-23-2012, 04:42 PM | #33 | |
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However for me, this issue goes deeper than personal preference. I almost titled the thread, "How to kill The Dance". Which may sound overly dramatic, at the same time, it is true for me. If my gender/sexuality is not recognized by a counterpart, be they Butch/boi/Trans Man then there IS no dance. There is no dynamic. To me, this speaks to the soul of our micro-culture, and the history of our dynamic. I have a hard time imagining any OFOS partner casually tossing a Femme at a straight guy... Lol. And yes, once it really was for a piece of toast! |
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04-23-2012, 06:21 PM | #34 |
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unpracticed manners, isn't dat an oxymoron?
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04-23-2012, 06:42 PM | #35 | |
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grrrrrrr I'm disgusted!! |
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04-23-2012, 06:47 PM | #36 | |
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Jake |
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04-23-2012, 06:49 PM | #37 |
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first of all. FireDance, I am sorry to hear that happened to you.
as for myself, I taught myself ( cuz my Dad was and is an ass , my Mother passed away when i was young ) to treat ALL ladies with respect. not only treat the ladies with respect, treat EVERYONE with respect. I try to and dont have to work at that to hard, to practice that every day. I offer my chair if i see a lady standing, I will offer my chair if i see a butch standing. if i see a lady who is walkin behind me, I will open and leave the door open for her. I will do that also for anyone walkin behind me. It's the simple things that can make anyone's day |
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04-23-2012, 09:38 PM | #38 |
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I can totaly understand y a butch would ask hys femme to deal with the male ego in a situation that hy ( ur lover/partner ) might be challenged in.. No one has ever asked me on a date to use my femmine charms . That's just "Bad Manners"...There wouldn't be a second date .. Now this is where being an attractive femme woman comes in to play, In the past, (this past saturday even ) and in my future I do and will use my femmine ways to get what I want from the male ego. Bash me if u want, if the shoe was on the other foot, u know a man would take advantage as well,they have and the will. Soo sry Fire it happened to you on a date.
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04-23-2012, 10:13 PM | #39 |
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Firedance, I'm sorry this keeps happening to you. It truly isn't respectful.
But I so understand and resonate when you wrote: You know, we Femme's are only truly seen by those of us who can hear the music of, "The Dance". We are both, inexplicably more fully alive when in the presence of the other, even if we are strangers, even if there is no attraction, and yes, even if we are simply friends. It isn't just being invisible. It is being who we are. We need our counterparts in the dance to validate who we are, to let us relax and just be, and know we are femme. When they try to trade what we are into a currency that benefits them, that's exploitation. And it's truly very sad. |
04-23-2012, 10:40 PM | #40 |
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I cannot IMAGINE ever suggesting that my girl "go get something done" via her femininity. That's crass and feeds into some heteronormative, "women are pretty so let's use them" mindset that I cannot begin to understand. It's disrespectful.
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