Ask a trans person!

[Mister Bent]

Originally Posted by Jet

I don;t know why it is so hard for people to wrap their minds around transgender. It's very simple: I'm male and in the wrong body. I hate being in the wrong body. That's all. There's really nothing else to get in my book.

There are still plenty of people who consider this kind of thinking indicative of mental illness. There is nothing in their experience that can help them relate to, or in anyway understand, the reality of our situation. Never has there been a day in which they hated their anatomy in the way that transgendered/sexed people might.

Most people are incapable of thinking outside their own experience, so I understand and accept that it's hard for them to "wrap their minds around" it. What I don't understand, and won't accept, is their intolerance and continued choice to remain ignorant.

I choose, also, to accept that the burden is on me to help them get past where they are in their thinking. That it is not helpful for me to show them anger, fear or their own hatred in return.

[Jet]

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

There are still plenty of people who consider this kind of thinking indicative of mental illness. There is nothing in their experience that can help them relate to, or in anyway understand, the reality of our situation. Never has there been a day in which they hated their anatomy in the way that transgendered/sexed people might.

Most people are incapable of thinking outside their own experience, so I understand and accept that it's hard for them to "wrap their minds around" it. What I don't understand, and won't accept, is their intolerance and continued choice to remain ignorant.

I choose, also, to accept that the burden is on me to help them get past where they are in their thinking. That it is not helpful for me to show them anger, fear or their own hatred in return.

I don't need to help anybody understand anything. The last time I did that I ended up in a fist fight with a bio man. I'm done with others' intolerance and explaining and holding somebody's hand gently trying to "guide" them through reasoning that they'll NEVER get. And for the record, that SOB, my own family member who punched and slapped the hell out of me, can kiss my ass. This is what it has been like as transgendered. No one, and I mean no one, gets close to me.

[Mister Bent]

Originally Posted by Jet

I don't need to help anybody understand anything. The last time I did that I ended up in a fist fight with a bio man. I'm done with others' intolerance and explaining and holding somebody's hand gently trying to "guide" them through reasoning that they'll NEVER get. And for the record, that SOB, my own family member who punched and slapped the hell out of me, can kiss my ass. This is what it has been like as transgendered. No one, and I mean no one, gets close to me.

I'm not advocating trying to help by explaining, or hand holding. It's in the way I live my life. It's in the way I comport myself among my co-workers, my clients, my neighbors. I've survived and thrived this way in the most urban and most rural environments, and everything in between.

Being angry, resentful, closed off isn't a viable option for a healthy, balanced, full life for me. I don't try to explain myself to anyone, I feel no need for that. I am first and foremost a human and relate to others solely from that perspective. I know I am a fantastic and beautiful creature, others either see it or don't; I have no expectation of their "getting it," as much as I might wish to live in a world in which they would.

I believe that if you confront the world with anger, it will greet you in turn.

[Jet]

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

I'm not advocating trying to help by explaining, or hand holding. It's in the way I live my life. It's in the way I comport myself among my co-workers, my clients, my neighbors. I've survived and thrived this way in the most urban and most rural environments, and everything in between.

Being angry, resentful, closed off isn't a viable option for a healthy, balanced, full life for me. I don't try to explain myself to anyone, I feel no need for that. I am first and foremost a human and relate to others solely from that perspective. I know I am a fantastic and beautiful creature, others either see it or don't; I have no expectation of their "getting it," as much as I might wish to live in a world in which they would.

I believe that if you confront the world with anger, it will greet you in turn.

Well....this is you. It's not me. Honestly, I don't even want to be here. I have to because I'm a Catholic.

[Mister Bent]

Originally Posted by Jet

Well....this is you. It's not me. Honestly, I don't even want to be here. I have to because I'm a Catholic.

I did a lot of work to get to this place, Jet. I'd be lying if I said I lived with no anger, or if I never had to turn to a friend or lover to help me remain on track.

I can't tell you how to live your life, I can only share what works for me, and hope that maybe somewhere in there you can find something that might serve you.

I understand feeling isolated, alone, misunderstood, unseen. I think most here do.

[atomiczombie]

Originally Posted by Jet

I don't need to help anybody understand anything. The last time I did that I ended up in a fist fight with a bio man. I'm done with others' intolerance and explaining and holding somebody's hand gently trying to "guide" them through reasoning that they'll NEVER get. And for the record, that SOB, my own family member who punched and slapped the hell out of me, can kiss my ass. This is what it has been like as transgendered. No one, and I mean no one, gets close to me.

I totally get what you are saying here Parker, and understand your wanting to keep everyone at a distance. I think what happened to you with this family member has more elements besides transphobia. I would say that abuse was involved too. Getting slapped and punched, for any reason, is abuse. And you do have a right to separate yourself from him, and should do that.

As for transphobia, some people just won't get it and never will. They are unwilling and incapable of doing so and there is no point in engaging them further. It serves no purpose. But not everyone is like that, Parker. Some people are misinformed and having conversations with them does enlighten them because they are openminded. Figuring out who is openminded and who isn't is tricky. Figuring out when it is safe and appropriate to confront transphobia and when it isn't is tricky too.

Case in point, it took a while to explain it to my parents before they finally got it. They had to go through their own processing and out-growing of their close-mindedness before they could really get it. But eventually they got it and we have a good relationship now. You just have to figure out if someone is respectful and openminded enough to hear you and take you seriously. Sounds like you have family members who aren't and that is very sad and painful. Being here among us other transfolk and trans-allys can be healthy and healing for you and I hope you stick with us.

[Jet]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

I totally get what you are saying here Parker, and understand your wanting to keep everyone at a distance. I think what happened to you with this family member has more elements besides transphobia. I would say that abuse was involved too. Getting slapped and punched, for any reason, is abuse. And you do have a right to separate yourself from him, and should do that.

As for transphobia, some people just won't get it and never will. They are unwilling and incapable of doing so and there is no point in engaging them further. It serves no purpose. But not everyone is like that, Parker. Some people are misinformed and having conversations with them does enlighten them because they are openminded. Figuring out who is openminded and who isn't is tricky. Figuring out when it is safe and appropriate to confront transphobia and when it isn't is tricky too.

Case in point, it took a while to explain it to my parents before they finally got it. They had to go through their own processing and out-growing of their close-mindedness before they could really get it. But eventually they got it and we have a good relationship now. You just have to figure out if someone is respectful and openminded enough to hear you and take you seriously. Sounds like you have family members who aren't and that is very sad and painful. Being here among us other transfolk and trans-allys can be healthy and healing for you and I hope you stick with us.

transphobia, physical and verbal abuse: Doesn't matter. They're both shit. And I've had my share. As such, I won't get close to anyone.
Not femmes, not transguys, not family, no one. Thanks for the kind note AZ.

[sweetfemme247]

Originally Posted by Jet

transphobia, physical and verbal abuse: Doesn't matter. They're both shit. And I've had my share. As such, I won't get close to anyone.
Not femmes, not transguys, not family, no one. Thanks for the kind note AZ.

I am sorry you went through that, I hope someday you will let someone get close to you.

[theoddz]

I'll never forget what my dear ex said to me one time about transwomen....."It's not right. It's like the ultimate voyeurism perpetrated on (cis??) women."

I had to do an awful lot of processing, reconciling and forgiving to overcome the myriad of feelings I had about that statement. I still am at odds with the hurtful feelings I have about it, but I've made a lot of progress during the last 8 years since she's been gone.

There were only two topics we ever discussed that made me wonder if she and I were ever really good people. The trans issue, particularly against transwomen was one and my sense of American pride and patriotism was the other (this was based on a remark she made to me following the 9/11 tragedy).

People come and go in our lives. I truly believe that they do so in order that we all might learn and grow from each other. As much as I loved my ex, and as horribly sad and lost as I felt after she walked out, I realize now how much I've grown and evolved. I've even had the courage to get to know, accept and love myself....and now I'm able to live my life fully and truthfully.

Parker, my friend, I really hope you don't shut us, your friends, out. I think you're going to find your perfect love one of these days, and you know what?? She won't change you. You will change you. When love is healthy and right, it lifts you up and brings power to you....power like you've never known it before. You will move mountains in your life, do things you never dreamed you could do, and then everything will make sense. I wish this for you. I wish you a strong, healthy, steadfast and devoted love. I wish you strength. (Maybe I'm taking things for granted here a bit, but I have a strange feeling, in a very good way, about you. I think the best....the very best....is yet to come for you. You are on the right road, my brother.)

~Theo~

[Jet]

Originally Posted by theoddz

I'll never forget what my dear ex said to me one time about transwomen....."It's not right. It's like the ultimate voyeurism perpetrated on (cis??) women."

I had to do an awful lot of processing, reconciling and forgiving to overcome the myriad of feelings I had about that statement. I still am at odds with the hurtful feelings I have about it, but I've made a lot of progress during the last 8 years since she's been gone.

There were only two topics we ever discussed that made me wonder if she and I were ever really good people. The trans issue, particularly against transwomen was one and my sense of American pride and patriotism was the other (this was based on a remark she made to me following the 9/11 tragedy).

People come and go in our lives. I truly believe that they do so in order that we all might learn and grow from each other. As much as I loved my ex, and as horribly sad and lost as I felt after she walked out, I realize now how much I've grown and evolved. I've even had the courage to get to know, accept and love myself....and now I'm able to live my life fully and truthfully.

Parker, my friend, I really hope you don't shut us, your friends, out. I think you're going to find your perfect love one of these days, and you know what?? She won't change you. You will change you. When love is healthy and right, it lifts you up and brings power to you....power like you've never known it before. You will move mountains in your life, do things you never dreamed you could do, and then everything will make sense. I wish this for you. I wish you a strong, healthy, steadfast and devoted love. I wish you strength. (Maybe I'm taking things for granted here a bit, but I have a strange feeling, in a very good way, about you. I think the best....the very best....is yet to come for you. You are on the right road, my brother.)

~Theo~

Thanks Theo. You've always been a champ, and I'm grateful. i don't want anybody in my life. I'm a loner and it'll stay that way. at 53 I'm squaring away with this. No body gets close, Theo..nobody. But you're a kind and good-hearted man. I appreciate your input. Just so you know.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by June

I don't see transitioning as a betrayal. I will admit to being perplexed by it sometimes. When I came out, I knew about Transwomen, and that made sense to me -- "Who doesn't want to be a woman?" And I understood, as much as I was able to about feeling you didn't fit the body you were in and needing to change the exterior to match the interior. When I first became aware of Transmen, initially, that was harder because "I" didn't feel male at all. See, and this is how "I" and I suspect others feel because "We" don't feel male. But it is not about "Us", it is about "You". When I was finally able to ascribe the same internal logic I used for Transwomen, I was able to move forward a bit. One of the things I know is Transphobic behavior for me, is the worry and judgement I feel when I see so many people doing it. I worry that they haven't gotten the counseling or medical attention needed or that they may not be aware of the long term effects of Testosterone on their bodies. I know that it is not for me, June to worry about, my responsibility is to open my mind and heart to people, regardless of how they identify and let them worry about themselves and hope they have a good support system.

June, can I ask something: do you think your transphobia is based more in misandry than transphobia itself? It seems that you are ok with the path that MTFs take but uncomfortable with that of FTMs and it makes me wonder if it's a bit more of misandry than transphobia at work here.

I think it's hard to describe to someone what it's like to be transsexual. It would be like you describing to me what it's like to be whole with one's gender. It's a foreign concept, I believe, for many of us.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

There are still plenty of people who consider this kind of thinking indicative of mental illness. There is nothing in their experience that can help them relate to, or in anyway understand, the reality of our situation. Never has there been a day in which they hated their anatomy in the way that transgendered/sexed people might.

Most people are incapable of thinking outside their own experience, so I understand and accept that it's hard for them to "wrap their minds around" it. What I don't understand, and won't accept, is their intolerance and continued choice to remain ignorant.

I choose, also, to accept that the burden is on me to help them get past where they are in their thinking. That it is not helpful for me to show them anger, fear or their own hatred in return.

Mister Bent, agreed. I think the biggest issue with those that think this is a mental illness is that they use it against us, denying us medical attention, help, rights, etc. I also agree on the concept of the burden to help someone address it is by showing understanding, compassion for others. The idea of "treat others as you want to be treated", even if they cannot do it. By responding to someone in anger, it does nothing, IMO, other than get them more angry and less likely to listen.


To those just reading: this thread is for trans individuals who need support but also for non-trans individuals who want to understand and learn. Many of us are willing to answer whatever questions are asked for those that want to understand or be educated.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by June

Thank you, Linus. I know you started this back in November, but this is scary because I know I am going to fuck up at some point and hurt someones feelings, and that's not my intent at all. I'm not making excuses in advance, I am just acknowleging that it might happen, and I'm worried.

As long as you recognize it when it happens and then listen afterwards, that's all that matters.