Butch Femme Planet  

Go Back   Butch Femme Planet > GENDER AND IDENTITY > The Butch Zone

The Butch Zone For all things "Butch"

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-13-2010, 06:17 PM   #1
Jett
Member

How Do You Identify?:
Hardcore bullheaded grown-ass Tomboy
Preferred Pronoun?:
She
Relationship Status:
she loves my shaggy hair
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The backroom of a night cafe plotting world domination
Posts: 1,028
Thanks: 2,054
Thanked 3,299 Times in 568 Posts
Rep Power: 21474853
Jett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST Reputation
Default

What feels safe is my lumping myself into a space I kind of can slide by in... what feels less safe is a middle ground between two huge accepted gender designations.

"Other"... no matter where I go there I am facing it including here. Though I keep grasping at those straws, trying to place myself into "one or the other" (binary- woman or man) and once again when I do find myself uncomfortably in a position of just not quite belonging. There's only one place I had that I felt I could breath... and that was in my while back acknowledgment of "The Other Genders".

A couple months ago I'm looking at an old photo of myself (teenage for retroweek) and it triggered a strong desire to find the contentedness in her eyes, and I thought I found it in her being happy in her being "her", BUT totally missed that it's just her being ignorant (and blissful in that ignorance) to the implications of who s/he is/was and what it would mean in the world.

Then I get a bigger damn wake up, I wrote this thread for female or women butches... and hit submit, and the itchiness began. The more I try to speak from that position... the more itchy I get, the more that it's not right feeling rises up and the more I realize to I need to be forthright with myself and here. My body is female yes and will always be and I'm happy with that (though it tends to random masculine traits it's no doubt on the more female on the bits side)... but my mind is quite "other", it is very pangender, or androgyne, male and female by birth or by lived life... what ever it is what it is.

My self acceptance is a process in which denial has played too large a part and needs to be gotten over... I really want to just be who I am and it starts with owning it. I was going to re-write this and post it tomorrow but what the hell...

Metropolis
*still a female but perhaps not in the same sense this thread has and may follow*
-------------------------------------------------
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be?
__________________
..........
In the depth of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer. ~Albert Camus
Jett is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Jett For This Useful Post:
Old 03-13-2010, 11:05 PM   #2
AtLast
Infamous Member

How Do You Identify?:
Woman
Preferred Pronoun?:
HER - SHE
Relationship Status:
Relating
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: CA & AZ I'm a Snowbird
Posts: 5,408
Thanks: 11,826
Thanked 10,827 Times in 3,199 Posts
Rep Power: 21474857
AtLast Has the BEST ReputationAtLast Has the BEST ReputationAtLast Has the BEST ReputationAtLast Has the BEST ReputationAtLast Has the BEST ReputationAtLast Has the BEST ReputationAtLast Has the BEST ReputationAtLast Has the BEST ReputationAtLast Has the BEST ReputationAtLast Has the BEST ReputationAtLast Has the BEST Reputation
Member Photo Albums
Default

Other, yes, other. For me, other is the mix of female & male .... a merging and this feels right to me. Yet, it does not feel like what we have traditionally conceived via the gender binary. It is something other and needs no modification. Nuturance, yes, change, no. But, this is the other that fits for me, not everyone. This is how it has always been for me.

I just want to have a respected place in which I am seen for my character, not my gender. And not feel that I have to continually fight for recognition as the female I am. Nor do I want to be a more masculine woman that I am or put on false male bravado to be accepted as butch. This is out of character for me.

What I am is just a butch and happy with this.

Last edited by AtLast; 03-13-2010 at 11:06 PM. Reason: goofed
AtLast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2010, 02:59 PM   #3
BullDog
Infamous Member

How Do You Identify?:
Dominant Stone Butch Daddy
Preferred Pronoun?:
She
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: In A Healing Place
Posts: 5,371
Thanks: 18,160
Thanked 22,640 Times in 4,463 Posts
Rep Power: 21474856
BullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST Reputation
Default

I don't believe that the gender binary that we all seem to complain about is really the major problem. Sure more than two genders do exist and should be recognized. However, it's the stereotypes and limitations placed on the gender roles that are recognized (man and woman) that are what is most damaging. Sexism is the primary cause of this. If there were no limitations or stereotypes placed on women, than many more females would not find woman to be problematic as their gender or part of their gender. Some still would.

However, having a gazillion gender identities doesn't get us any freer than we were before. Sexism is alive and well in queer culture, as much as it ever has been. The fact that lesbian, butch femme and queer communities can't seem to come to grips with the fact that women can fully embrace their masculinity and still be fully female and fully woman is a symptom of this.

I fully embrace woman as I do butch. It's empowering to me because I have a right to fully embrace woman as much as I do butch and masculinity. It's important for me to stand with other women- whether butch, femme, lesbian, queer or straight.

I also don't think it's easier to embrace woman than Other, nor do I think it plays into the binary.
__________________
Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other.

- Rainer Maria Rilke
BullDog is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to BullDog For This Useful Post:
Old 03-14-2010, 04:44 PM   #4
Jett
Member

How Do You Identify?:
Hardcore bullheaded grown-ass Tomboy
Preferred Pronoun?:
She
Relationship Status:
she loves my shaggy hair
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The backroom of a night cafe plotting world domination
Posts: 1,028
Thanks: 2,054
Thanked 3,299 Times in 568 Posts
Rep Power: 21474853
Jett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BullDog View Post
I don't believe that the gender binary that we all seem to complain about is really the major problem. Sure more than two genders do exist and should be recognized. However, it's the stereotypes and limitations placed on the gender roles that are recognized (man and woman) that are what is most damaging. Sexism is the primary cause of this. If there were no limitations or stereotypes placed on women, than many more females would not find woman to be problematic as their gender or part of their gender. Some still would.

However, having a gazillion gender identities doesn't get us any freer than we were before. Sexism is alive and well in queer culture, as much as it ever has been. The fact that lesbian, butch femme and queer communities can't seem to come to grips with the fact that women can fully embrace their masculinity and still be fully female and fully woman is a symptom of this.

I fully embrace woman as I do butch. It's empowering to me because I have a right to fully embrace woman as much as I do butch and masculinity. It's important for me to stand with other women- whether butch, femme, lesbian, queer or straight.

I also don't think it's easier to embrace woman than Other, nor do I think it plays into the binary.
Bully I don't know if this is a response to me or your having random thoughts but...

I don't think claiming woman plays into the binary either, unless of course you don't feel like one and you do anyway... that does play into the binary.

With that I don't think that other genders claiming women if we don't own it furthers those identities (and "Other" has been around as long as female or male and also very oppressed) nor does it further women... or make either any "freer".

Bully, in the same way you embrace being a woman as you do butch, I have the "right" to fully embrace being "other" as I do butch... and like you it's empowering to me to embrace who I am... and to still stand with everyone who was born female in this sexist world... whether they be butch, femme, lesbian, queer or straight.

I don't think you have to be "woman" to feel some of the sting of or fight sexism... I'm still a female and I didn't break free from that ball and chain (sexism). But really if all genders fought it... not just women (or as women) it wouldn't even exist. Somehow I think I'm far from finished in fighting sexism and misogyny, whether from the mouths of butch, other genders, males or right from the mouths of women... you know... fight the real enemy, sexism... not those that aren't women.

And... I do think the binary's a "major problem" in the very least it's being held over peoples heads as "the normal" (including all butches etc.), in the worst if you don't fit into it, it can mean becoming just another hate crime statistic.

Peace
Metro

ETA: I, myself, don't want to go into the politics of how my gender as a female who doesn't identify as women affects women as a whole... I pretty much am dropping the politics of gender in favor of accepting myself in my gender and exactly what it is for me, not for what it does for/to others.

It's not about anyone else and I'm happy to keep it that way and just be done with all the should or shouldn't(s) of gender, I've done that too much already.
__________________
..........
In the depth of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer. ~Albert Camus

Last edited by Jett; 03-14-2010 at 05:01 PM.
Jett is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Jett For This Useful Post:
Old 03-14-2010, 05:00 PM   #5
BullDog
Infamous Member

How Do You Identify?:
Dominant Stone Butch Daddy
Preferred Pronoun?:
She
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: In A Healing Place
Posts: 5,371
Thanks: 18,160
Thanked 22,640 Times in 4,463 Posts
Rep Power: 21474856
BullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Metro, I'm not fighting anyone who doesn't claim woman and don't think only women can fight against sexism. I've also never said anyone didn't have a right to fully embrace what felt right to them more than I did.

I think I am weary of all the gender talk for now. I am not seeing any progress, and I see women continue to be de-valued in our queer communities.

peace,
Bully

ETA: I understand for you gender is not political. However, we will never be accepted for our genders without social change.
__________________
Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other.

- Rainer Maria Rilke
BullDog is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to BullDog For This Useful Post:
Old 03-14-2010, 05:39 PM   #6
Jett
Member

How Do You Identify?:
Hardcore bullheaded grown-ass Tomboy
Preferred Pronoun?:
She
Relationship Status:
she loves my shaggy hair
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The backroom of a night cafe plotting world domination
Posts: 1,028
Thanks: 2,054
Thanked 3,299 Times in 568 Posts
Rep Power: 21474853
Jett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST ReputationJett Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BullDog View Post
Metro, I'm not fighting anyone who doesn't claim woman and don't think only women can fight against sexism. I've also never said anyone didn't have a right to fully embrace what felt right to them more than I did.

I think I am weary of all the gender talk for now. I am not seeing any progress, and I see women continue to be de-valued in our queer communities.

peace,
Bully

ETA: I understand for you gender is not political. However, we will never be accepted for our genders without social change.
And I don't disagree with any of this, I was responding to your inference that claiming other genders didn't make women any freer... and your relating it all in with the fight on sexism. I guess I assumed you were engaging with it.

Metro
*who is also pretty tired of talking about gender I'd like to see this thread continue in the spirit it was intended with or without me... doesn't matter... if not it's just another opportunity lost*
__________________
..........
In the depth of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer. ~Albert Camus

Last edited by Jett; 03-14-2010 at 06:07 PM.
Jett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2010, 06:07 PM   #7
BullDog
Infamous Member

How Do You Identify?:
Dominant Stone Butch Daddy
Preferred Pronoun?:
She
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: In A Healing Place
Posts: 5,371
Thanks: 18,160
Thanked 22,640 Times in 4,463 Posts
Rep Power: 21474856
BullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolis View Post
And I don't disagree with any of this, I was responding to your inference that claiming other genders didn't make women any freer... and your relating it all in with the fight on sexism. I guess I assumed you were engaging with it.

Metro
*who is also pretty tired of talking about gender I'd like to see this thread continue in the spirit it was intended with or without me... doesn't matter... if it doesn't it's just another opportunity lost*
Metro I wasn't making that inference. I would try to explain, but I am a bit talked out at the moment. Peace.
__________________
Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other.

- Rainer Maria Rilke
BullDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:22 AM.


ButchFemmePlanet.com
All information copyright of BFP 2018